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Post by douglaswulf on Jan 25, 2007 4:12:29 GMT
... as the Krotons used to say.
Suppose we place some notices in the classified pages of publications around the world?
Where should we direct readers to respond? I put the Treasure Hunt as the 'direction point' in my free Craig's List postings.
Now, I just assumed that the Treasure Hunt people wouldn't be annoyed that I did this. I am assuming that they would appreciate the publicity. We should always be careful not to step on any toes. Maybe I should have contacted them first.
Well, placing ads in newspapers and other publications costs money, but it's not the sort of big money that would be involved in rewards. We could maybe investigate how to place ads and then take turns paying for one or two each, whoever would like to participate. I'd like to try it, just to give it a go.
In any case, it seems to me that we should not direct readers back to any of us. We are just one more step away from the people at the BBC who could handle this. It seems to me that the Treasure Hunt is as good as any direction point to provide.
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Post by douglaswulf on Jan 25, 2007 7:04:15 GMT
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Post by douglaswulf on Jan 26, 2007 0:11:05 GMT
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Post by fatsothewombat on Jan 26, 2007 15:37:46 GMT
I think placing classified ad "wanted: 16mm film prints of BBC TV shows" etc is probably the best strategy there is for the vast majority of people.
I wouldn't point them in the direction of Treasure Hunt though; for a start that campaign's long finished and the site is out of date.
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Post by douglaswulf on Jan 26, 2007 15:48:28 GMT
I think placing classified ad "wanted: 16mm film prints of BBC TV shows" etc is probably the best strategy there is for the vast majority of people. I wouldn't point them in the direction of Treasure Hunt though; for a start that campaign's long finished and the site is out of date. That's good to know. But I don't want to direct replies to me, for example. I'm here near Washington D.C. in the USA and I want people who view an ad to contact the BBC directly. Suppose someone in Singapore has an old film print of a missing episode of Doctor Who or some other BBC show and reads the ad that I've posted on Yahoo Lost and Found Singapore. What is the best thing to ask such a person to do? Whom should that person contact? |
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Post by fatsothewombat on Jan 26, 2007 15:53:47 GMT
I have no objection to people contacting me - chances are there will be very few replies anyway, and I'm quite used to sorting out which are the wind-up merchants.
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Post by douglaswulf on Jan 26, 2007 16:07:23 GMT
I have no objection to people contacting me - chances are there will be very few replies anyway, and I'm quite used to sorting out which are the wind-up merchants. Well, thank you. It's just that the BBC is where we want the prints to go, so it would be best to have as few intermediaries as possible. It would be good to contact the current head of BBC archives and ask if it would be alright to use her name or some specific BBC email and mailing address as a contact in ads placed by fans. I'm glad that you are fine dealing with hoaxers, but I don't want to bother with that. |
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Post by fatsothewombat on Jan 30, 2007 12:32:41 GMT
I would say that some filtering before the BBC are contacted is a wise thing, as there is little point in someone being directed to the BBC if:
1 - they do not possess missing material.
2 - they are hoaxers.
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Post by douglaswulf on Jan 31, 2007 4:50:36 GMT
Well, in any case, I emailed the Treasure Hunt and got a reply, so people could be put directly in contact.
I don't *personally* want to deal with trying to filter out hoaxers and so forth, but you can certainly do that if you want.
See below...
Dear Mr Wulf,
Thank you for you email.
The BBC Archives Treasure Hunt website and contact e-mail address are
intended to help recover missing BBC programmes so that they can be
added to the archive. Please use this address to contact the BBC
regarding any missing BBC material.
Kind Regards
The Treasure Hunt Team
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Post by Brian Wilson on Jan 31, 2007 22:21:29 GMT
I would say that some filtering before the BBC are contacted is a wise thing, as there is little point in someone being directed to the BBC if: 1 - they do not possess missing material. 2 - they are hoaxers. In my view "filtering" through a Dr Who fan is not a good idea. That approach is guaranteed to attract hoaxers from within fandom. The type of person who likes to hoax can only get his kicks by operating within fandom - whether that be the DWM hoaxes of the 80s, online forum hoaxes or targetting someone who they already know to be a fan. (It might be sensible if we did not reveal the global location of any newspaper articles/letters/classifieds/radio interviews/radio mentions.) Any publicity we raise should point people directly towards the BBC/RT TEAM/TREASURE HUNT TEAM/RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARCHIVE. It is important to feature both an email address and, if possible, a physical address. |
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Post by fatsothewombat on Feb 1, 2007 11:59:57 GMT
Hoaxers will target anyone - the BBC, RT, and Treasure Hunt Team have all been the target of hoaxers (I don't know about ROTLA, but I am sure they will be/will have been). Even the Cardiff production office has been the target of hoaxers. Just because they are not widely publicised, it does not mean they do not happen.
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Post by douglaswulf on Feb 2, 2007 23:08:14 GMT
Hoaxers will target anyone - the BBC, RT, and Treasure Hunt Team have all been the target of hoaxers (I don't know about ROTLA, but I am sure they will be/will have been). Even the Cardiff production office has been the target of hoaxers. Just because they are not widely publicised, it does not mean they do not happen. Since these official organizations and groups are frequent targets of hoaxes, they would probably get very good at filtering out the hoaxers themselves. Plus, if they are hoaxed by an individual once, they will know not to believe that person again. I suppose what I'm saying is that the whole matter, including dealing with the hoaxers, is probably just best left to these people at the BBC. Other than generally encouraging people who might have valuable materials to come forward and contact the BBC, it might otherwise be best for fans not to entangle themselves in negotiations of any sort, even in cases where hoaxers are involved. You might personally be an exception to this, since perhaps you have a talent for deflecting hoaxers away. I just wouldn't want to get involved with that. I'm also not convinced that fans need to work to shield the BBC from hoaxes particularly. A hoaxer might get some practice hoaxing fans first and then hoax the BBC once they have gotten really good at it, for example!  |
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Post by fatsothewombat on Feb 6, 2007 14:16:29 GMT
The point is that hoaxers are already trying to hoax the beeb; doing something that would potentially drive even more towards them strikes me as a bad idea.
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Post by Brian Wilson on Feb 6, 2007 14:28:18 GMT
Do you mean doing something like the ridiculously solipsistic idea of offering a life-size Dalek in return for missing episodes? Yes - something like that might well attract hoaxers from a few Blue Peter watching kids.
How exactly do you know how many times the Treasure Hunt team, RT team and Cardiff production team have been hoaxed?
I really don't imagine the frequency of these hoaxes would be anywhere near as high or elaborate as the hoaxes that occur online in fandom. Do you really think there are lots Dr Who fans in Nigeria, Singapore and Zambia ready to concoct a hoax as soon as they read or hear a story about missing episodes?
Referring people directly to the BBC(Treasure Hunt)/ROTLA is the correct approach (imo). That is what those organisations are set up for - it's part of the nature of the job that there might be the occasional hoax. The emergency 999 services are the victims of hoaxes on a daily basis...does that mean they should change their number and go ex-directory? Should Crimewatch stop broadcasting? Whats the point in a 4 part tv series on UK television (ROTLA) if all it is going to do is attract hoaxers?
TH and ROTLA are professionals in this line of work. They are also not overly protective about Dr Who in the way that fans are - their judgement will be perhaps...not quite so passionate and mixed with emotion?
I wonder if part of your reason for your thoughts on this is that you think that genuine episodes might have been discovered over the years but were believed, by the BBC, to be a hoax and never followed up? Personally, I think this is highly unlikely.
No offence, but I really do think that your comments on "hoaxing" could use a little perspective. In an earlier post you write about being used to ". . .sorting out which are the wind-up merchants"... Perhaps because you are so involved with fandom and online forums the issue has become over-exaggerated for you? Even within online fandom - the perfect climate for hoaxers, we have only had 2 proper hoaxes in the last year - Mind of Evil colour episode hoax. Wall of Lies (Ainsworth).
Both were completely transparent to me from the outset.
Brian.
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Post by fatsothewombat on Feb 7, 2007 10:39:43 GMT
Fair enough; I didn't know that people were still answering the Treasure Hunt email address. However, the website is terribly out of date, and has not been updated in years. The campaign itself is long since finished.
Whilst I don't know exactly how many times the Treasure Hunt team, RT and Cardiff production team have been hoaxed, I do know they have been a fair few times (and it's people who definitely would know this that have stated as much).
Re: the Ainsworth incident. I only believed that to be true in the latter stages of the hoax (the last week or so), and that was because Andrew said he had seen the print himself with his own eyes, and as he was someone I had known online for quite some time prior to this, I took him at his word. All the while when it was "Jacob Knights" who'd seen it, I was sure it was a hoax. But the rapport and trust that had built up towards Andrew meant that when he said he had seen it, I believed him.
No, I don't believe that genuine missing Dr Who has been offered to the BBC and dismissed as a hoax.
And there were definitely more than two online hoaxes last year; the two you cite were the most prominent, but there were several others as well.
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